Feeds

There are 82 posts filed in Feeds (this is page 6 of 9).

Update: I figured out that Gary Teter’s post I referenced on December 10 was not deleted from the FeedLand user view, so looks like it was my post that brought in the comment guidelines. I apologize for the error.

An unfortunate exercise of editorial discretion by Dave Winer?

Update: I figured out that Gary Teter’s post I referenced on December 10 was not deleted from the FeedLand user view, so looks like it was my post that brought in the comment guidelines. I apologize for the error.

I have been following the development of FeedLand, a new feed reader application from Dave Winer. I have used many of the tools that Dave has developed over the years. One cost of using his tools is figuring out how to navigate a web of sometimes unclear expectations on support forums/repos. For the Drummer application, it was made clear that problems related to Drummer were acceptable, but that was about all that was allowed.

Recently, Dave Winer added two new features to FeedLand – a way for a user to make short posts and create a RSS feed, and a collected view/river of user posts. I took a look at the feature yesterday, and decided to make a short post comparing this experience in FeedLand to an app I use for reading posts by Drummer users who blog using the Old School blogging tool. Here is the text of the post:

In response to Ken Smith’s comment on the Read user feeds feature in FeedLand, this is the sense of community that the Old School Drummers river has as well. However, with the ability to post new items as you read them, thee feedback loop tightens…which is a good thing…which is like Twitter/Mastodon…hmmmm…

Post on FeedLand feed

A little later, I decided to check to see if anyone had responded. What I found was my post in the user post view was deleted (the post was still present in my RSS feed), and this post was now at the top of the view:

I should’ve done this from the start, but I didn’t want to start off on a negative note. I’ve been hosting discussion groups on the net since the beginning and these days spam and abuse start pretty soon, and there’s no negotiating with it, you need clear rules and no tolerance.

So you have to have a policy ready, and I do — they’re called the Comment Guidelines, and they apply here. They’re easy to follow for most people, and we need them to protect against spam and abuse.

I’ll include a customized version in the Docs menu, soon. 😉

Wow (I thought to myself)! What was wrong with this? I decided to sleep on it and approach it fresh in the morning. I read through the “Comment Guidelines”, I think my item fell in the “No Spam” category (It’s not a place for you to promote your products, services, blog, initiatives, political causes. Don’t post spam. ) and the “No blog posts” category (2 sentences could be a blog post, I guess). Later this morning, I saw a post by Gary Teter that it appeared he had also fallen prey to deletion:

Apparently FeedLand’s “my feed” isn’t actually my feed, and is intended just for making comments about FeedLand. So I guess I will have to come up with some other way to make quick posts to the blog part from my phone. Disappointed.

As a proud union member who does not cross picket lines, turning off the New York Times feeds at the root level of FeedLand feels like the Musk approach. Unsubscribing from them on your own feed seems better to me. If there’s a social aspect to using FeedLand, it is users following each other’s curation judgments. Not the owner of the platform using the platform itself to express personal judgments.

It appears that the second paragraph of this quote was the offending post.

So – where was the guidance of what to post and what not to post? I looked at the FeedLand Change Notes blog, and found the post on creating a user RSS feed and the first post on the User Feed View feature. There was where I found the key phrase:

The rules of decorum apply here. There will be ways to block people, that’s inevitable. Feel free to discuss the product. Do not get personal, do not give anyone orders. Remember we’re here to have fun and make something new!

from FeedLand Change notes blog

So – read between the lines – this “user feed view” is a Dave Winer site, and is governed by the comment guidelines for his regular blog. I think Gary Teter said it best:

Apparently FeedLand’s “my feed” isn’t actually my feed, and is intended just for making comments about FeedLand. …Disappointed.

Demo of rssCloud protocol and reallySimple NPM module 

In this era of moving away from Twitter, I have been reviewing the rssCloud protocol and think about its potential. I had not done anything about it, but saw this Twitter thread and really liked this comment by Preslav Rachev regarding building on RSS: “And best of all, everyone is free to build their own apps and tooling on top of it without restrictions, or stepping onto each other’s toes.”. I then decided to start playing around….

I read through the walkthrough document on the rssCloud site and decided that the simplest test would be to create some RSS feeds that have rssCloud elements, register them with a rssCloud server, then get the server to contact a server when the feeds updated, then display some information from the feeds. I started with this script from Dave Winer, updated it to provide web output, then ran the script twice to register two different feeds. I then made a video of running the script, posting to feeds using Drummer and FeedLand, then displaying the title or description of the most recent item in the feed, along with the feed name. The video is shown below. Source code and more instructions are available on Github. Let me know what you think!

What about the IndieWeb and RSS?

Dave Winer wrote a post with the title “IndieWeb should love RSS” recently, with one of the themes being that the IndieWeb has a lack of support for RSS. I would like to provide a little background from my participation in the IndieWeb community.

In January 2014, I attended a Homebrew Website Club meeting. This was (and still is) a gathering of like-minded people to discuss personal websites and making updates to them. The lead person was Aaron Parecki, one of the IndieWebCamp co-founders. We all introduced ourselves, and shared various opinions on web site development and talked about our individual sites. One of the things mentioned was the use of microformats as a technique/technology for building websites. I had not heard of this before, and looked into it more after the meeting. I then wrote a post on what I was interested in exploring, and one of the items was “following other sites”. What I found in looking at other Indieweb-type sites was that they did not have any RSS feed for posts. Specifically, the two co-founders, Aaron Parecki and Tantek Celik, did not have feeds available for their sites. In the next meeting I attended, I brought this up. The response was that they were using microformats to encode data within their websites, and that there were microformat parsers which could read that formatted data and present it in a feed reader application. Aaron Parecki even did a hack on the Selfoss feed reader application to allow it to parse microformats-based sites and present site updates like a RSS feed reader would. I even wrote up some instructions on how to set this up (after the fact). In the meeting, however, I asked how the attendees expected people to keep up with site updates without some type of feed to monitor. Aaron’s response was that more people needed to adopt microformats. I said that this was a “boil the ocean” strategy and that people who use feeds to monitor sites expect to use RSS and Atom, not microformats.

Sometime after that, I noticed that both Aaron Parecki and Tantek Celik started providing a feed for their sites, although it was really a feed generated by some other application that was parsing their microformats stuff. For the next several years, though, the general trend in the group of websites that considered themselves to be part of the IndieWeb community focused on microformats and technologies that built on microformats as a building block. Over time, this overt position against RSS/Atom feeds has subsided, and (per the IndieWeb website), I would say the current focus is on the principles of (1) principles over project-centric focus, (2) publish on your site, and (3) design and UX come first, then protocols and formats are developed second. In that list, RSS and Atom become part of a “plurality of projects“, acknowledging that there can be “more than one way to do it”, as Perl devotees like to say.

The more active IndieWeb members (Aaron Parecki and Tantek Celik leading the way) have created a number of standards based on technologies grown from implementations on Indieweb websites (Webmention, Microsub, and Micropub). Time will tell if these develop into more mainstream technologies. I think Webmention (supporting site-to-site communication/commenting) is the furthest along (I have it enabled through WordPress plugin on my main site), but I am interested in exploring the others. RSS, though, has stood the test of time, and is still powering feed readers and podcast clients throughout the world. Dave Winer should rightly feel proud of his contributions in this area. RSS and podcasting are a crucial part of what I call (and others have called) the “independent web” (websites and web presences that are not part of a silo like Twitter, Facebook, etc, where people own their data and control it (also an IndieWeb principle)). The two areas (IndieWeb and independent web) share some features, but in my opinion, should not be considered “the same” – there are differences. My hope is that they can coexist and at times even work together, but always with respect (as the IndieWeb code of conduct states: “Be respectful of other people, respectfully ask people to stop if you are bothered….”).

The way ahead for RSS and podcasting

Dave Winer has released some new tools/apps using RSS this week, and referenced some recent posts on podcasting concerning innovation in that space. Both of these deserve some review and context.

The RSS tools Dave initially demonstrated showed mailbox-reader styles of displaying the content of a RSS feed. Next, Dave talked about two-way RSS as a method to connect outliners with other publishing systems. I voiced an opinion that I did not understand why RSS needed to be involved. With the Twitter + Markdown + RSS unveiling, my view of “the way ahead” is becoming a little clearer. A tool is used to create tweets which contain Markdown markup. Those tweets are sent to Twitter. At the same time, a RSS feed of the tweets is created containing Markdown markup. Finally, a feed reader app is consuming that RSS feed and rendering the Markdown markup in the presentation of the RSS feed. Now, where is the value added by this workflow/system? Twitter is not making use of the enhanced RSS feed, but another app is using those features. And – those features are enabled by the use of a namespace (the source namespace), a feature in RSS that has been there for a long, long time. This is a demonstration that new apps can be built around RSS and using RSS. Now, what else could be done with this RSS feed? Well, at some point, who needs Twitter? Someone could create an app or service that uses the RSS feed as the content container and notifies users when the feed has been updated. Historically, feed reader apps do this when you start the app (highlight new entries), or rivers of news display the new items at the top of the page. But it could be done in a much quicker manner, perhaps using some other protocol like Micropub/Microsub or XMPP. Dave Winer has written about this in 2016 (The Internet’s Twitter), 2011 (fractional horsepower Twitter feed), 2009 (Fractional Horsepower Twitters), again in 2009 (A Billion Twitters). I also wrote a series of posts in 2016 where I also put forward that RSS could be the basis of an open messaging system.

Now, I will turn to podcasting. In the past week, Michael Mignano wrote about the lack of innovation in podcasting. Dave Winer commented that this is not the case. Alberto Betella then had an excellent reply to Mignano, pointing to the work Adam Curry has done on his Podcasting 2.0 initiative, supporting micropayments and other cool features. Again, the vehicle for innovation was using the RSS namespace feature. This is how the rest of the world can overcome the juggernauts of Spotify and others (which I have written about here, here, and here).

So – nothing keeping people from being innovative here – let’s get to work then!

Playing with includes in opmlPackage

This afternoon, I spent some time experimenting with opmlPackage from Dave Winer, focusing on the new feature to include other OPML files within an OPML file. The includes feature is only part of the Node version of the package (other features can be used in a browser). I changed the OPML file that had example includes to use three reading list files that I had in OPML format. I then changed the demo script to add logic to write out the new outline as a file (you can see it in this Gist) and ran it locally on my laptop. Finally, I created another copy of the OPML client to display the new outline (you can see it here). Looks like the includes feature is working fine!